ET World Leaders Forum: We must keep eyes wide open while dealing with China, says Shashi Tharoor

It's important to have a common platform like the United Nations, but the forum has become ineffective with squabbling and the delay in Security Council reform, Congress leader Shashi Tharoor said. Speaking with ET at the ET World Leaders Forum, Tharoor also said US President Donald Trump's lack of diplomatic tact and willingness to "do things nobody else in his position would have thought of" have stung India. He advised that "we must deal with China with eyes wide open." Edited excerpts:

How do you see the relevance of the UN, given your experience inside the system? Has its edifice outlived its usefulness?
I hope not, because I think we can't do without some sort of a forum where we can get all the countries on a common platform. But certainly, the sort of the golden days of the UN were when I had the privilege of working closely with one of the great secretary generals in Kofi Annan, there has been a certain decline since then.

It's not just because the superpowers are unable to agree on most things to do with peace and security. It's also because we are facing an increasing tendency to move away from multilateral solutions to global problems. More and more countries are acting in their own interests.


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We've been hearing about Security Council reform. Why is it so elusive?
I remember when secretary general Boutros Boutros-Ghali said in 1992 that reforms should be completed by the UN's 50th anniversary in 1995. We've since crossed the 60th, 70th, and even the 80th anniversary... There's the sort of tired bromides being articulated by people but no real genuine commitment to an outcome and Donald Trump, of course, offers no hope in that direction.

How do you headline the Trump era?
Trump is unpredictable. An extremely unusual style amongst the history of heads of governments, his negotiating style is itself a challenge. The combination of a certain lack of diplomatic tact and a willingness to do things nobody else in his position would have thought of has stung us. What's worrying is the willingness to discard offhand a quarter of a century of US' dedicated strategic engagements with India.

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What about the tariffs and economic challenges?
I'm hearing reports of cancellations of orders in garments, leather, seafood, which affects my state, and, of course, gems and jewellery... Some of this started before the additional 25% tariff was announced.

That 25% tariff has to come down, or we are in trouble in several sectors. The second 25% tariff is more than a tariff: it's a sanction, a geopolitical bludgeon, indirectly targetting Russia...

The fact that China can import far more oil and gas from Russia than we do suggests the cards we hold aren't as strong as we'd like to claim. The answers are obvious: diversification of markets is indispensable. We also need much more stimulus to domestic demand, so internal consumption can absorb some of this.

What is your view on China and the state of Indo-China relations?
I've become a bit of a cynic on China. I've seen the good and bad days. China has a very clear negative strategic orientation towards India. This year, we've seen withholding of rare earth magnets and minerals, cancellations of tunnel boring machines, withdrawal of technicians from factories - deliberate decisions to cut back on India becoming a manufacturing alternative.

There's been extraordinary real-time cooperation between China and Pakistan militarily in Operation Sindoor.

The shifting tonality of China has often been there: they say sweet things, then incidents throw us off balance. We must deal with China with eyes wide open - buy what they sell, persuade them not to withhold essentials, but not be naive.